Cash Strapped Falkirk Council To Subsidise Orange Walk

orangeAt a time when Falkirk Council leader, Craig Martin, was claiming the local authority was facing a £20million shortfall in funding the Labour / Tory coalition administration has agreed to subsidise a forthcoming major Orange Walk through the town on 25 June.

At the meeting of the council’s Executive Committee a report was presented outlining changes in the manner road traffic matters would be taken forward between the council and Police Scotland for parades and possessions.

Councillors agreed to meet the cost of the issuing of required Temporary Traffic Regulation Orders, (TTRO) for all organisations including local children’s Gala Days and heritage bodies.

However, the next report on the agenda related to a request by the Orange Order for the council to meet half the cost of the remaining transport issues with a grant to application to the Community Grants Fund to the tune of £1,145.

Labour members proposed and seconded a motion to make the award before hearing evidence that local groups such as the Bo’ness Fair Committee were not only being charged for all traffic impact matters but had been facing charges in previous year including bills of TTRO’s each year.

During a series of questions to officers put by the two SNP members of the committee, David Alexander and Tom Coleman, the committee heard that the budget for Community Grants this year was £94,000, a cut of around 15% from the previous year’s £110,000, all of which was allocated to local groups during the 2015/16 financial year.

Officers also admitted that the award would be to the detriment of local groups such as Children’s Gala Days and likely to result in a flood of applications from local groups seeking parity placing a strain on the entire grants system.

The SNP members argued that the knock on effect to local groups must be taken into account given the significant cuts imposed on the budget by the Administration and that the application also failed to meet the criteria as it related to a national event held locally while the fund was there to assist local groups.

Councillor Alexander said,

“This isn’t about the right to parade its about the proper use of a dwindling source of funding established to assist local groups put on events such as the Mariner’s Day in Camelon and the Bo’ness Fair, events which are inclusive.

“We have no difficulty with this group receiving the benefit of saving of the £725 on the cost of the TTRO they would have had to pay if the previous report had not been approved as all groups will benefit from this but the award of a further grant is a step to far.”

The council policy on such awards also recommends rejection of applications from groups with a religious or political message and many would argue that the Orange Order was both, see the extract from the report below.

3.3. Policy

A copy of the council’s Community Grant Scheme is attached as an appendix. The scheme generally requires that applications are made well in advance but given recent developments as described in the earlier report this is not possible in this case. There is also provision within the scheme that funds are not available for “activities promoting religious or political beliefs”. However, the organisers say that an award would help defray the costs of the event which forms part of the historical and cultural fabric of Scotland and which, they argue, will contribute to the local economy.

Seconding the SNP amendment Cllr Coleman questioned the accuracy of the statement that this would be good for local businesses. Cllr Coleman said,

“Lets face it, local people will avoid Falkirk town centre on 25 June which will lead to a net loss of trade for the majority of traders.”

The SNP amendment to reject the application on the grounds that,

1. The application did not meet criteria.

2. Approval would be to the clear detriment of local community groups and,

3. the impact on the budget would be considerable

was rejected by 8 votes to 2 with one abstention.

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87 Responses to Cash Strapped Falkirk Council To Subsidise Orange Walk

  1. Pauline McFarlane says:

    Typical council weans should come before bigots, the people of Bo’ ness help to fund the fair day and it has still been cut back they are determined to put an end to the whole thing by undermining the town. At the end of the day the fair day will prevail regardless of the Falkirk council.

    • yvonne johnston says:

      The orange order fund their own parades as well, but regarding traffic management every resident in scotland pays taxes to fund the police, pay for council services etc, so they already pay for services, why should they pay twice, no one should have to pay for something they already contribte to in other ways and that includes the fair, though now because of the orange order’s stance i believe charges for galadays have also now been suspended.

  2. G McCallum says:

    Who the hell needs money to walk? tell them to piss off and go for a nice walk round the Glens or something 🙂

    • Barbara Mackay says:

      Well Said.

    • yvonne johnston says:

      they shouldn’t need money to walk, but since police scotland have thrown the dummy out of the pram by refusing to provide traffice management for ALL processions the council have been left to sort out the mess, personally think its worked out for others because due to their stance all charges for galas have now been suspended as well

  3. Dr Jim says:

    An Irish sectarian bigot group contributes to Scottish culture

    Well who’da thought eh

  4. Jackie says:

    Think marches of all orange and Republic should be banned from marching there’s more bigotry in Scotland than ever as far as I can remember

  5. Geraldine McGuckin says:

    This is quite shocking,, as a child I was brought up in Glasgow in Parkhead a mostly Catholic area,, near Celtic Park…. They used to deliberately come down the main road just to provoke people. I remember it well . this is a stupid outdated custom,,, a demonstration really and should not be allowed, never mind funded by the council. the whole thing encourages segregation.

    • Kerry says:

      Whats a ‘Catholic area’, do you mean ghetto? Last time I looked ghettos were in America.

      Get real dear, I walk everywhere and it don’t cost a penny. Media hype

    • sam dunbar says:

      of course the other side dont cause bother get alife not long ago cant remeber where in scotland the local council was going to close down a kids club thats all kids catholic and protestant but it was the orange order that kept the club open time you people seen just whats really happens or not what goes on in your bigoted mind

  6. Joyce says:

    Just because you are a member of the orange order doesn’t make you a bigot. I have roman catholic friends who like to watch the Republican parades but I don’t refer to them as bigots.

    • jimk47 says:

      Oh aye it does,

    • James Haltwhistle says:

      Yes it does. The Loyal Orange Order specifically excludes Roman Catholics from membership. The order is not recognised by Freemasonry bodies worldwide precisely because it is sectarian. Its principal objective is to defend Protestantism so everyone, other christian denominations, Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus and those of us who pay no lip-service to any ghostly being should be up in arms against this waste of our money.

  7. George Newall says:

    No walk should be subsidized by any council as they are ie causing trouble with another organisation/s. You will probably know that the person who proposed and the seconder are all part of the Orange Organisation.The people of Falkirk should make a stance against this.

    • Ian MacFadyen says:

      In total agreement, it provokes division and instability in communities, it certainly is not in line with the Progressive Scotland that we want to see for our kids and it has no historical significance to the great majority of the Scottish people.

  8. Linsay Stevenson says:

    I was born and brought up in Falkirk and I cannot remember there ever being an Orange Walk in the 1950s and 60s although there was plenty of shameful anti-catholic bigotry in the ‘protestant’ community. This is outrageous and as clear a political statement as you could wish for from the Unionist bigots who have control of the Council. Scotland does not need this sort of sectarian nonsense, and shame on those who seek to perpetuate it, particularly by the use of public money,

  9. R Gilfillan says:

    Cutbacks on the fair year on year but will fund those biggots?!? Tory labour scum

  10. Johnnie Hamill says:

    In these days of political correctness it is completely unfathomable that groups such as the Boness Gala day , the Mariners day parade etc are penalised so that the most bigoted and outdated organisation in Scotland benefit from council payouts for marching up and down a street spouting hatred, inciting religous bigotry, anti Catholic sentiments, and usually causing chaos to traffic and normal people going about their daily business, its time that all of these sectarian marches were banned for life, the good people of Falkirk and surrounding areas are sick to the back teeth of these morons and it’s time for this nonsense to stop once and for all……

  11. Chuck McKeys says:

    The amount of money this will bring to the local economy will far out weigh the amount of money they have been granted. Food shops will make money, pubs will make money, corner shops will make money. Throw in bookmakers and city centre shops and then have a wee think about how much the town will benefit from this event. Tens of thousands will be spent in the local area

    • Charles says:

      So, ‘ let’s have a wee think about how much the town will benefit?’

      Firstly the vast Majority of decent Folk will steer well clear of the Town Centre due to the inevitable ‘Trouble!’ It is also a given that the majority of Trouble caused at these Marches is not in fact perpetrated by those participating, but by those following on the Sidelines, and these are exactly the Folk who will be Tanking Up in the Pubs for a bit of Dutch Courage, after putting their Wages on at the Bookies and Stuffing their Faces in Greggs and buying Cheap Wine in the Corner Shops! When the March is over they will be joined by the participants and off you go again!

      When Folk start avoiding a Town Centre for ANY reason, it is the beginning of a long slippery slope and even more ‘Shutters’ will appear on the High Street!
      Enjoy!

  12. Mark says:

    Could they not Pay for this right? It’s going to cost thousands for the council to police!

  13. Craig says:

    People calling us bigots for celebrating our culture and History .
    The orange order does a lot of good work for charities and local community’s “are we bigots then”
    Stay indoors or go elsewhere that day
    The big east walk is once a year

    • sam dunbar says:

      well said mate same old crap off people like this and they havnt a clue what their on about

      • Ian MacFadyen says:

        Most of us like to celebrate our history but we don’t cast a blight on society when we do. Orange Walks epitomise anger and hatred and it has very little to do with this country’s history. Can you not get the message?

    • mark says:

      hy should i stay indoors will there be trouble ?

  14. Rob says:

    The SNP Councillors took the wrong approach there(have they learned nothing from watching the antics at Holyrood !), what they should have done was displayed unbridled enthusiasm for the orange walk, offered to pay for everything, thereby ensuring that their Labour opposite numbers would vote against it – result !

  15. Tony McNulty says:

    Community events which are inclusive to all people should be welcomed and helped , enjoyed by one and all . The OO no matter how you dress it up divide people , it`s not a carnival atmosphere like they want us to believe with their “Orangefest” , do they`re walking in they`re halls time Scotland joined the 21st century and ban them from our streets . It has no place in a modern society after all we`re all Jock Tamsons bairns and as such end the parades of hate !

    • sam dunbar says:

      its not a walk of hate lol really you people believe your own hype my whole family was in the lodge and they all had catholic friends so where does the hate come into it …ohh i know folk that havnt a clue what their talking about

  16. John Savage says:

    I am at a loss to understand this. In this day and age NO religious, sectarian, call it what you want should be subsidised by the community. If you are a member, participant, of any of these organisations of what ever creed then you should pay for any services incurred

    • sam dunbar says:

      the orange lodge pay loads into their marches so lets get that fact straight but as i said what they get a thousand theyll be a lot more than that pumped back into the shops in the area of the walk

  17. Johnberry says:

    I am reading some of the replys on hear and wondering who the BIGOTS are ???

    • Ian MacFadyen says:

      The Trump Card, is it not funny how the word bigot is used to deflect from the fact that the Orange Order is sinister in its very placement in Scotland? Give to charity and cause division.
      I am neither Catholic nor Protestant, it is just very easy to see a controlling influence in your organisation at work.

  18. Joyce says:

    Anti-Catholic bigotry…? goes both ways. Wish I had a pound for every time i’ve been called an orange b—–d but to me sticks and stones come to mind.

  19. Craig scott says:

    What about all the money a parade of this size will bring to the town

  20. mark says:

    Is it not a big part of the Orange march that they pass a Catholic area ?

    • Kerry says:

      Is that what the signposts say? Welcome to a Catholic area? Come on…

      • mark says:

        why do they demand to march in these areas in NI every year? if they want to march then march around their own area and pay for it themselves I have no qualms with freedom to march and support any cause, but this “tradition” To March to Catholic areas is adding fuel to the fire ,, lbh say what you want its anti catholic whether you have Catholic friends or not

  21. cher says:

    The local economy isn’t only one that benefits you think all the different modes of transport lodges, bands and spectators use to come to these events. Ferrys, planes, buses trains taxis as well as public transport, along with local businesses that’s takens will increase a couple of days before and after with visitors. That out weighs everything. But yet ud prefer to curb your own people’s freedom of speech and human rights. But if this was for any culture and you stopped assistance u would be a racist

    • Ian MacFadyen says:

      We need to heal society from the Northern Ireland situation, the orange walk does no such thing, it was never anything to do with Scotland’s History. If another ethnic group has a parade they are very unlikely to cause division like your walks do. Most of us would prefer if you kept your money in your pocket and spent it in your local community with family and friends instead of trying to drag up another country’s troubled history.

  22. Steph says:

    Why aren’t the orange order entilted to a part of this grant, we are a part of this community and local economy may i add since 1869 in falkirk. We do so much charity work locally and nationally, recently the war memorial in Camelon. We are a part of this commuinty and entitled to this like any other organisation.

  23. Ian MacFadyen says:

    How do I get this story on to a facebook petition to get this stopped?

  24. Tom Mcfarlane says:

    I really hope that all this bigotry on both sides is banned in Scotland. This is the 21st century we don’t need brain dead idiots stamping up and down the road singing about rubbish that should have been binned years ago.
    Spend our hard earned taxes on the future of Scotland not the past.

  25. Michelle says:

    The council no put how much there charging the lodges for using Callander park and as for no 1 using the high street there being lots of followers with them and would spend there money in the town

  26. A Strrach says:

    Bigots R Us

  27. gerry says:

    The orange order mintain its there right to walk down the street as it is a protestant country they say well i like to think it’s a christian country after all Catholicism was here before protestantism . The republican movement is a non sectarian movement its a political movement with both catholic and protestant members in it but the labour party always bend over for the orange order its all
    About getting the orange vote come election day

    • sam dunbar says:

      rubbish lol labour and orange order dont belong in the same sentence lol fact is labour was always catholic but the rise of the scottish national party all the wee sad bigots have joined them hoping to destroy the union

      • Ian MacFadyen says:

        The Orange Order are sinister, I have no religious affiliation but it is easy to see that they support another country’s rule over Scotland, so I agree it is political. Give the impression of being good to society, call someone a bigot when they don’t agree with them and cause division, not good for society.

  28. Thomas says:

    I always find it ironic when I see people condemn bigotry by showing themselves up as the most bigoted.

    Personally I would rather any funding went to children’s causes however I see no need to vilify any organisation simply because I don’t agree with it.

  29. Allan Bell says:

    All religious sectarian marches should be banned. Only cause trouble in Scotland.
    !

    • sam dunbar says:

      they only cause trouble to people who want trouble in the first place lk wouldnt stop these banning the orange walk wouldnt stop these people

      • Greg Sloan says:

        Was the wee girl hit in a face with a bottle in Glasgow Green the other year looking for trouble?

  30. Tam says:

    Solution is simple – vote them out next year!

  31. Andrea Dabelstein says:

    For such s**t they have money but wanting to close Bandeath Dog Shelter, because for animals in need there is then no money left!!!

  32. Sam Monteith says:

    The Orange order will bring much needed revenue to a Falkirk that’s dying on it’s feet !! Pubs clubs and resteraunts with benefit !!
    The only bigots I see are are the uneducated ones commenting here !!!

    • Ian MacFadyen says:

      But we don’t benefit, keep your money if it causes divisiveness, more people will stay at home because you are marching.

  33. Loyalist 1690 says:

    Considering that the only ones out to cause hated are the other side of the community seems that their nose is out of place get over it we will walk and we will have a good day of it any trouble we will know who it is and it sure as he’ll won’t be any of us we go out for a good day and return home at night if you can’t hack that for one day I’m sure there will a wee illegal republican parade in Denny or else where u can go watch and see how.much that costs to police for the cops to turn a blind eye to it at end of day u dnt like dnt go out to town simple.plenty.more.folk will be there to enjoy it and go home having a good day

    • Ian MacFadyen says:

      None of your parades are wanted here, it has nothing to do with Scotland yet causes so much division in our communities.

      • Tony McNulty says:

        The money spent in the town from members and followers will be on alcohol , no doubt , so the pubs and off sales will do well . When the sectarian parade is over the clean up begins , the park will be like a land filled site , yet again the tax payer footing the bill to clean it up . The ordinary folks of Falkirk will shop else where rather than indure the sectarian bile spouted by all , so the shops loss out as do the people of the community .

  34. Steff says:

    All Republican and Orange walks should not be allowed on our streets forcing this on people who do not want it, they should be moves to closed Industrial Estates at weekends where they can walk till their little hearts are content and then only the people that want to hear it will hear it and the rest of the people can go about their daily business without being told “if you dont like it then you should stay in your house”

  35. Ian Wison says:

    It seems as though everyone has missed the point here and the thread has become a sad collection of insults and counter insults that does no credit to anyone. As far as I can see the Councillors weren’t asked whether or not the parade should take place, that decision had already been taken and so this isn’t about the right to walk. What it is about is whether or not the council should give a donation to a national organisation from a dwindling budget set up fo local community groups. Like all grants there has to be a set of qualifying criteria and in this case that means groups that are either political or religous don’t qualify. I have no beef with the Orange Order, I will simply not go into Falkirk on that day, but surely no one can argue that the Orange Order isn’t a religous body and therefor does not meet the council criteria for funding from this budget anyway. I don’t have strong political views but have voted SNP before I have also voted Labour, Liberal and Independent but I have to say that the two SNP Councillors appear to be the only ones who acted properly and considered the facts before taking what could be argued taken a brave decision for the correct reasons.

  36. Cadogan Enright says:

    Councils in Northern Ireland do not grant aid the Orange Order

    It is illegal to fund political and religious organisations – both of which the OO claims to be

    Cllr Cadogan Enright
    County Down

  37. mark says:

    I cannot believe that many supporters believe that I should just “stay in the house” or “avoid the city centre” yet claim its a peaceful” parade ,…

  38. Cathy says:

    Why has the comments here turned into a mash of insults, the point here is not about religion, secretarianism, or even about the particular order whom wishes to walk, they had already been given permission to walk. The issue is that the council have decided to help fund this out of a limited budget that was set up to help local community groups in the current climate, the orange walk as everyone are so eager to point out are perfectly capable of funding their own walks, so on that basis alone should not have received this funding, never mind the fact that they did not meet the criteria and awarding this funding would be to the detriment of other local groups as it would have a severe impact of the funding available to them, The SNP in this case appear to be the only ones to voice there concerns over that.

    Now personal opinion and experience, we had the big walk and it took nearly 2 hours to pass my house, so no I couldn’t go away from it, although the grandkids loved seeing it, the police came round before the walk and ordered the local shops to close their doors for the duration of the walk, this I believe is an attempt to control the availability of alcohol for consumption on route, so to say that the shops and local economy make considerably out of the walks may be incorrect, in fact I would go as far as to say they possibly make less, it was a scorching hot day and I felt sorry for the people following it as they couldn’t even get in to buy water, was there drunken disorder, yes of course there was some, it’s my personal belief that there is no need for any of these walks in this day in age from either side at all, but i support their right to want to do it, but there is no need to go through town and cities, the upheaval it causes for everyone outweighs the positives, there are plenty of large country parks etc that these walks could have there parades at, then everyone whom wanted to attend could, and anyone whom didn’t isn’t affected by it, would be so much easier to control and police, much cheaper and might actualy be much nicer day for everyone concerned, that is just my personal opinion but as I said earlier the facts are about funding from a limited budget set up for local community groups

  39. Paul says:

    I am wondering if we started Pipebands and loads of scotsmen in kilts marching through parts of ireland it would be ok, would not be allowed down south.

  40. Tony McNulty says:

    The rules of the council state no religious or political organisation should benifit from the subsidy in question , on both points the OO don`t qualify . Why do members or supporters of this organisation always refer to having catholic friends when their organisation is under scrutiny , on the other hand referring to people of this faith as “fenians” or more derogatry terms like taigs and tarriers , being protestant fraternity should it not be showing christian charity towards others ? As to bring money to the town , certainly the pubs will do well . People who normally shop at the weekends will avoid the town , so welcome if you wish like many others I`ll walk in the opposite direction rather than having a bigotfest imposed on us .

  41. Susie says:

    Used to work in the library in Denny, always a bad day when the walk came by as there was always bother. I’m hoping that it won’t pass by my new employers.
    Good on the SNP councillors!

  42. admin says:

    We have published a cross section of posts on this matter covering all opinions although some have been deleted because of their content. Only a few have been about the matter that Councillors had to address, namely, did this application meet the council’s own criteria for qualification for a grant from this fund. Clearly it did not and the stance taken by our Councillors was an honest and consistent one and they should be applauded for that. As the debate seems to be about the wider matters that w have little, if any, influence rather than the issue at hand no further comments will be published and we will end with this statement

  43. eddie says:

    I have worked as a taxi driver for 20 year I have spent aprox 10 000 pounds to Falkirk council I have never worked on that day or night I reckon the council owe me that money back for allowing that outdated nothing to do with Scotland organisation to close streets cause bother and split communities Falkirk council who voted for the the grant hang your head in shame

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